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ADOBE MEDIATION RESULT

Philosophical, ethical, political and legal discussion about FreeHand.

ADOBE MEDIATION RESULT

Postby FFH Thü » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:11 am

Dear members

We have always been asked by many of our members, if it would be possible to get FreeHand into open source or get further updates. We have come together with lawyers who helped us to file a lawsuit and we can now honestly say, we have tried hard for the past two years.

The mediation made apparent to us why the application cannot be released from Adobe ownership. Because of legal confidentiality, we cannot share these reasons to the membership, but we clearly understand and respect Adobe’s purpose for keeping FreeHand within its ownership. At least, Adobe did respond to us with discussions over many weeks.

Their attorneys and ours have worked out the following offer to all members of FreeFreeHand. In short: Adobe has agreed to meet in person with designees of Free FreeHand on at least four occasions to discuss ways to update and improve Illustrator in ways that we believe will best meet the needs of FreeHand users.

Also, FreeFreeHand members can get a discount on certain Adobe CS6 products. Members do or did receive by email a personal discount code which can be used in Adobe’s online store. (Exception: People living in an embargoed country or a country without official Adobe distributor will not receive this offer.)

Please read the lawyers official statement in the recent announcement sent to all members.

However, be aware that Adobe Illustrator CS6 does officially not support opening FreeHand files anymore. http://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/kb/s ... rator.html

The FreeFreeHand team will soon inform you about our next steps and our new course.

Thank you,
FFH, Bez, Mark & Thü
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Re: ADOBE MEDIATION RESULT

Postby tcha-tcho » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:07 am

Hello,

It is a very sad news that we receive now. With this news FreeHand is officially dead. And by that means, there is nothing that can be done in addition to these meetings. From what I understand, these meetings Adobe has no legal obligation to create any of the suggestions given. So we can only create a new FreeHand :cry:

Best Regards

Tcha-Tcho
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Re: ADOBE MEDIATION RESULT

Postby Snaptophobic » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:11 am

Uncle Adobe has given the noisy children a sweetie and a cuddly toy, patted us on the head and told us to "run along now and leave Uncle in peace".

I don't want Adobe products. I want FreeHand to live again.

I suppose, if this is the best we can hope for - and I do appreciate the hard work the Free FreeHand team has put in on our behalf in this Sisyphean task - then I'll have to run along.

I'm not prepared to accept a bribe. I am not prepared to pay an Adobe tax for poor quality any more, even with a discount. I don't want Illustrator, I want FreeHand!

Still, I have an ancient and creaking Mac that runs FreeHand. At least I can open and edit old files while I migrate to another vector app on my modern systems. MapDiva Artboard has much promise, though it can be an uphill struggle sometimes as I am so old I can't learn new ways to do stuff any more, and Pixelmator needs a few refinements before I can properly dispose of Photoshop entirely.

Thank you, Free FreeHand team, for your efforts. You did your best. It was all you could do, and we must be grateful you managed to get so far. Thank you.
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Re: ADOBE MEDIATION RESULT

Postby skilliard » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:04 am

First of all I want to thank you for your hard work, time and money you have spent to try something to achieve that can not be achieved in this day and age. That deserves the honorble medal of the Order of Don Quixote for your fight against windmills. ;-)

Since many of us have seen the film Wallstreet we can very well assume that what Adobe did is not different from what every corporate raider does in real life: buy a company or software, pick out the pieces they want and dump the rest to the garbage. If it is workers or software users - who cares? Of course Adobe can't set Freehand free without facing the loss of the patents they have bought with Freehand and included into Illustrator since long. You don't have to sign a confidentiality contract and discuss with Adobe managers to know this.

But I think we should do us the honor and not call a defeat a positive result of mediation. I hope this does not sound harsh because it is not the way I mean it and again I want to really express my gratitude for your hard work and efforts. There is simply no way to force a multi-billion-dollar company to do something sensible if you are not a multi-billion-zillionaire like Dagobert Duck.

Since the turn around for Freehand users came 7 years ago I can't imagine who still needs a cheaper version of Illustrator. The more because the special offer of the Adobe shop will not be cheaper than the street price from resellers.

I own since years the Design Suite CS now in version 5 and have recently lost 500 Dollars due to the fact that Adobe told me last year I have to update to CS5 to be able to upgrade to CS6. And after I did this they came out with the News in January that I could have upgraded from my CS4 to CS6 because of a their new policiy. Adobe is not even able to be reasonable with their own customer communication, what do you think will come out with the choices we wish to be implemented into Illustrator? The trainee of the sub-sub-sub responsible Accountant Director of Disheveled Shelves will brush it one day accidentially into the wastebasket ... and that was it.

If I would have a choice I would not work with Adobe products, but I / many of us have no choice. Thats how monopo-lies work.
And I must say that not everything is bad in Illustrator; in fact I meanwhile even like to work with it - but sometimes I would also like to throw it out of the window for some details that were so much easier and more intelligent done with Freehand. So I'm not any longer dependent on Freehand and can live with our loss, but I feel sorry for those who still had high hopes to be really able to work with a fully functionable Freehand in future. I also had high hopes to see Freehand released and may it only be to prove that a monopolist like Adobe can not do what they like with us. Well - they can.
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Re: ADOBE MEDIATION RESULT

Postby MichaelS » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:07 am

How wil help us this settlement after Adobe has kicked the abilitiy to read old FH-Files in Illustrator CS6?

So here are my wishes for Ullustrator improvements:
1. readd theability to read/convert old FH-Files and keep it as long as Illustrator is a living
2. doing this the graphicstyles should should be coverted. In Illu ≤ CSC55 the palette with graphicstyles is empty after an conversation. I know that in FH multiple styles could applied but the minimum would be to have the elements connected with style (and it would be OK when only the first line and fill will come up in the style definition)
3. Illustrator should'nt loose the connection between an element and its style (in the style palette) when the element is altered. When this happened than a small + should appear in the style list as it does at the text styles

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Re: ADOBE MEDIATION RESULT

Postby skilliard » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:13 am

deleted content because it is identical with an earlier posted message of mine
Last edited by skilliard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ADOBE MEDIATION RESULT

Postby Navale » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:22 am

Thanks for all of your efforts and let´s hope some users will appreciate working with Illy instead.

Eventhough I a am none of them, I would like to have access to my about 50.000 Freehand files, produced over the last 23 years, and a Freehand-based program which can be used also on new Mac systems.

The discount is more of an insult, but in line with what you can expect from Adobe. They think all is about the money.

Luckily I have bought recent Macs that will be working all of my lifetime, but mixing old and new machines on the table is not really practical...
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Re: ADOBE MEDIATION RESULT

Postby koehler » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:19 am

This means Freehand will never ever get an update?
It's all over now??????


200,- Dollars Discount is all what we have been fighting for?

Adobe will never ever make Illustrator more like Freehand.
Illustrator CS6 even won't open Freehand Files anymore.

Even if Illustrator CS7 will get 2 Freehand Features in 2015 or so..... What about out Thousands of native Freehand Files????


It's a Bad day.......
Now its true - we will NEVER get a new Freehand.........
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Re: ADOBE MEDIATION RESULT

Postby ThePixelDoc » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:12 am

Wow... how to respond to this "mediation result" without descending into rage or depression or both?!

The above replies echo my thoughts, so I guess we can start on 4 new improvements to Illustrator CS7. I chose 4 because of the 4 meetings assured of, making this an easy discussion for each.

1) THE #1 - Adobe must allow the opening of FH files going forward. If a mediator or court assigned negotiator is present, there has to be absolutely NO backing down on this! It should have been included in the final terms already!!!!

2) A cohesive and key-toggled pointer, that chooses "visually" what you click on: for example, a fat 10mm line can be selected by it's appearance and not only by it's center path or by dragging, and without the need to add an effect (outline path) to do so now.

3) Groups ALWAYS appear as solid objects and move/align as such, rather than 10,000 points unless "Hide Edges" is chosen... which breaks the visual selection of Text (you can't see what text you've marked, without turning "Hide Edges" off... which I seriously consider a bug!)

4)... up for grabs, but I know what everyone else is thinking, and it will NEVER come to Illustrator... and that is Paste Inside. Not going to happen.

I think #1 is undisputed, while the others are "pet-peeves" of mine and other migrators I know and work with. Considering that we shouldn't even have to tell Adobe about 2 and 3 and waste any of "our granted Wishes" to do so, I don't have much hope that they will... or even can... "fix" them. Which leaves anything like dynamic/editable "star creation" and "rounded corners" without using an effect, out of their ability to comprehend or code.

I've been subdued. I will return to thoroughly loathing my profession of 30 years recently, due to the tools I need becoming absolute POS over the last 10 years, and because the DOJ was caught sleeping and allowed a monopoly to take over.

And before I thoroughly bounce of the walls in rage... please... no one say that I can use either Windows or keep an old OS on an old Mac as an alternative. It really is NOT about that! We’re talking about MAJOR compromises moving FORWARD, in every facit of our profession. From true freeform creation/creativity... all the way to collaboration and production. It's a compromise. Period.

Everything with Adobe’s products as our tools... not of choice... but of monopoly position within our industry... is a depression-inducing reason... to quit.

Facetious I know, but digging holes in the Sahara looking for water is starting to look interesting, as long as I do not have to endure anything Adobe any longer. :evil: :cry:
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Re: ADOBE MEDIATION RESULT

Postby FFH Thü » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:28 am

You are all right about this. And it is clear what we "received" is ... well, its your choice to use or not use the "discount". Especially since AI has become even worse then it was by not converting our FreeHand files anymore. But the whole fight has one positive thing: We can now stop thinking about "may it be possible to get FH free or updated" and concentrate on our other strategy. Stay tuned as we will announce FFH's new course of action within the next two weeks.
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